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#21
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surely if batteries are ROAR approved why cant they be used for BRCA meetings, as the last post goes if it's ROAR or EFRA then they should be legal??
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#22
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Companies aren't in the habit of making things to blow up - and if we're talking about lipo safety, who says which lipo is going to blow. Expensive, cheaper, cheapest. Probably all the same. I've never seen one blow. I've killed a couple of packs by driving past their low voltage - never mind, no drama.
I've bought cheap lipo batteries for laptops - they didn't blow my knee off yet. I am not sure what all the aspects of lipo homologation is - but I am fairly certain they aren't taken to a bomb range and rated for their explosiveness! I saw super expensive team nimh cells injure people - so how was that safe due to homologation. Wasn't.
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#23
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Am i right in thinking to change things
1,needs to be proposed then seconded for brca agm 2,people need to turn up and vote.
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#24
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I assumed that they were checked for dimensions, charged at a set rate, discharged at a set rate then taken apart to check quality of internals for homologation?
If cheaper lipos were homologated then it may wake the more expensive 'manufacturers' question how much value their sticker adds in order to sell them. Would be interesting to see a reliable test done with the cheaper stuff compared to the brand names we pay for. Maybe we need an oOple Stig, a tamed race driver that can do comparison tests on the track with consistant driving to compare performance!
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#25
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If you ask me a lipo sack is a complete waste of time and money, purely because the Velcro "seal" cannot close properly when your charging wires are going through it! All you would get if the lipo went up is a space shuttle sized flame shooting out the side of the bag, probably straight into your crotch
I would rather be able to see the battery charging and give it a quick feel every now and again to make sure it's not getting warm
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John Jones --SMD--INSIDE LINE MODELS--PR RACING UK-- My feedback http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79696 |
#26
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Cell rules by oOple: Hard cased 7.4v end.
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If your PM doesn't at first succeed - try, try again. I'll reply in the end, honest. |
#27
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I saw a lipo fail in a branded lipo sack. It just melted it.
The lipo sack saved nothing. |
#28
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I shall reply to this when i get home, put on my tin hat and bullshit deflectors.....
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#29
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From the perspective of someone who last raced 'properly' in the days of brushed motors and 'Intellect Bang' nimh and who is considering a (slight) return:
In the labour intensive days of handwound, hand dyno'd motors and carefully matched packs of cells, homologation served as a useful cost cap for high end equipment though (as Jimmy points out) it still didn't ensure any kind of equality between clubman and team driver. Now we actually have that parity, in as much as we can all enjoy more power 'off the shelf' than we can feasibly use, it appears that homologation is quite the opposite. If you're one of the limited approved range then anyone wanting to do more than club level racing has to come to you. Having a captive market means you can charge more for your rebadged Chinese kit than otherwise identical, non-approved stuff. It does remind me a little of the racketeering you see in mob movies, but the BRCA will only test the items they're sent. Perhaps there should be more onus on distributors to submit more of their applicable gear, not just the fancy brands with bigger margins? The requirement for products to be 'commercially available' is sensible, after all the BRCA has a vested interest in protecting UK hobby shops where possible. In this internet age of overseas wholesale operations and their UK warehouses, defining 'commercially available' could get interesting though! With tens of thousands of club racers and bashers using 'off brand' equipment without issues then the 'safety' argument of homologation is pretty weak. Put it this way, any racing I do in 2013 will likely be at club level only with kit that costs way less than the national driver on the next table, yet with no discernible performance penalty. |
#30
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Jeez, do people really have no idea how the BRCA is run and how the rules are formed? I will no doubt repeat this time and agin, but there is now 'us' and 'them', the BRCA is run entirely by racers just like you and me, except they are prepared to put their free time into helping the hobby instead of moaning about it online.
If you want to change anything at all in the rules then all you have to do is put in a proposal and vote on it at the AGM. If you can argue your case and the majority agree then your proposal will get passed. If you can't be bothered to do that then you can't really complain because others have made a different decision. Quote:
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If your complaint is that they don't look realistic, why aren't you also complaining that buggies look even further from the real thing. If touring cars should be running scale replica shells then buggies should have live axles and a cage like the Axial Wraith, not something that bears no resemblance to the real thing. Quote:
If you want a free for all just propose it and vote on it at the AGM. Quote:
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A nimh cell will go bang and make a loud noise. Nimh have always been fairly safe until Intellect really took the piss with the rules, designing cells that the process of soldering a pack together usually meant you melted the safety vent. All the cells I have seen that were pretty destructive were Intellects. Most will just pop the cap off, some will throw their contents across the room, but that's it, done. it might be a bit warm but nothing more is going to happen. With lipos they are self sustaining, once started it will keep on burning at very high temperatures until it has expended all its energy. The point of a lipo sack isn't to control an explosion or to be left burning on your pit table, it buys you some time when the pack ignites. For most lipos in planes and helicopters the standard lipo sack is easily able to contain the fire. We tend to use somewhat more powerful batteries. The 1/12th section does require buckets of sand to be in the pits at every meeting. Being indoors there is considerably more danger than most off road tracks. If a lipo catches fire it is covered in the sand to smother it then left until it burns itself out, so keeping the toxic smoke contained as well. Quote:
As off road have more power than grip, unlike most other classes, there isn't an advantage apart from making sure the motors are commercially available. If you don't think there's a need for it propose it and vote on it at the AGM. Quote:
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Same with lipos. Lets say you are running a class with a 4200mah capacity limit, and a manufacturer has a pack homologated. If the manufacturer then increases the size slightly while keeping the same label on it, you now have a pack that is going to outperform all other lipos in that class. The manufacturers have a maximum size allowed and they should take that into consideration when designing the packs. The old nimh cells had a maximum size and they would still be within that size after swelling, until Intellect built their cells deliberately oversize and all the racers went out and bought them because they had a very slightly higher average voltage. Quote:
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#31
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F1 allows any 21.5T motor as long as the manufacturer had homologated the same can in any other class. 1/12th and GT12 allow any cheap lipo as long as it is commercially available and it does not need homologating. Bikes allow just about anything motor and battery wise. And if you aren't running nationals or regionals then what motor and lipo you are allowed is entirely down to the club and has nothing to do with the BRCA. there is nothing in the rules that state that clubs must follow BRCA rules, that is their individual choice.
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#32
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As an example, what if a lipo caught fire when at home, like what happened with Gil Losi. Your insurance company will pay up and then chase the UK distributor for the money they have paid out. If there is no official UK distributor then the importer is you and you would end up picking up the bill.
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#33
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#34
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and just about all the 12th lipo fires have been user error, chargers defaulting to nimh after a power out, so why are chargers not regulated? i asked for the brca to list the "unsafe" chargers, but they declined!
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#35
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It does mean an ammo box isn't allowed though as it wasn't designed for battery charging, but you can always get a Turnigy battery bunker It must be designed for charging lipos otherwise there would be nothing preventing someone deciding a Tupperware box is good enough, unfortunately you've always got to legislate for idiots.
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#36
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#37
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If something is on the list then you know the importer has proven they are responsible for any liability from any accidents with the products they sell. The 'tax' on the importers from covering the costs of homologation is very quickly recouped in sales.
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#38
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as you can probably tell, I've got some free time today.
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#39
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Mark,
What do you mean Orion is the biggest moan regarding swollen packs? Orion Batteries are not made by Kokham since the 45c packs was introduced. They are in a new factory that Oscar manages. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8i9TfubcSE |
#40
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Seen many posts saying that the Orion high c ratings have swollen, and after I advised em to contact you at Orion uk, they were told basically not interested. One was in fb page Louth model car club
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