explain electronic speed controller....

[autonm]

after about a 15 year absence I got back in 1/10 buggies about 3 months ago.

I bought a B44 along with a LOSI XCELORIN S 6.5T BRUSHLESS COMBO for around £115.....cheap entry - but good enough to get me going.

Im now looking into buying a more improved motor - possibly a LRP X12 for around £80-£100.

Now I can understand that a better motor would give me faster acceleration/speed etc etc .... but can anyone explain the benefits of buying a £100+ speed controller?

I dont understand what in a speed controller differeatiates a £60 one to a £150 one?

thanks for any explanations

[Fabs]

Right,

First of all, there's nothing wrong with the Losi motors, in fact they're very good. The speedo however not so much.

So if you're going for a motor with similar turns but different brand, I can garantee you'll barely see any difference.

Likewise with the speedo, as long as it works it provides good speed. It's the reliability department that is the Losi's downfall. From what I've seen the fans can break (and they don't like running with no fan at all), the speedo sometimes loses all speed for no reason, I've even seen one go backwards (when it had been doing fine the run before). Sometimes resetting the speedo with the PC interface gets it back to normal, but not always.

End of the day it's NOT a competition speedo and it is reflected in the pricing, and quality.

More expensive speedos are bound to be more reliable and in most buggy applications will not thermal if the fan stops working, will keep their settings etc...

Top of the range speedos also are very adjustable, brushless technology is a million miles away from the brushed you've known. In brushed you needed to prepare the motor to get the best out of it, good brushes, proper springs, etc... None of that in brushless, it's all down to the speedo's software, and every manufacturer does it different.

I would say your best bet is to keep your electronics as they are as the 6.5 losi combo is certainly fast enough for a 4WD buggy, and you might be lucky with your speedo (some people never have problems, some have endless problems). Then if your speedo starts getting gizmos, have a look at a better one.

[Alfonzo]

This is interesting as I'm considering buying a Losi Xceleron setup. Are they that bad?

[Brooks]

The losi motors are very good in performance and price
Have never used the losi speedo
Blue is Better - LRP

[Fabs]

Originally Posted by Alfonzo

This is interesting as I'm considering buying a Losi Xceleron setup. Are they that bad?

As always, you get what you pay for. As I said, people have had mixed experiences with them, you might get lucky, but chances are at some point it will go wrong.

[blue_pinky]

More expensive esc's will typically deliver better, smoother acceleration and brakes, and have better feel, more useful and noticable when your racing regularly and reasonably well practiced. They are usually able to better handle the fastest motors as well, like the 4.5t and lower, and typically give you a more robust ESC for racing.

The Losi ones from what I've seen can work perfectly well in competition, but there is some question over reliability and software. The software seems to have improved over time and can be updated via your pc, so it's an ever changing benchmark.

But in the right hands and with some care I get the impression they are perfectly ok, and perform very well on the track if you take a look at some of the results. I'm pretty sure the Losi team drivers are running them and not under performing, so if your system is working ok, then I'm not sure you'll notice a siginificant difference in overall performance?

In general though, I do agree with Fabs, like with everything, you get what you pay for! And each brand/model does feel different, I've never tried a Losi system and have been using novak for all of my racing. About to try out a Tekin now so I'm interested to see how different it feels.

[Fabs]

Originally Posted by blue_pinky

I'm pretty sure the Losi team drivers are running them

Used to run them

[autonm]

the reason im looking to upgrade is that myself and another club member both ran the £115 LOSI combo.

We were both always left behind on the straights, and after trying various settings on the ESC (via PC hookup) we could never get the same amount of acceleration as others even after trying various pinions out.

The other club member just bought a LRP X12 and a new ESC (sorry dont know make/model) - but now his acceleration and top speed matches the other members in the club....while im still being left behind on the straights.

The other thing I notice is that a lot of the member cars can litterally 'doughnut it' (for a better term) it on the spot (due to the power), where as with the Losi combo we end up doing a circle the size of a Tractor Tyre

So either between the 2 of us, we havnt found a setup that gives us this power .... or it proves a LRP X12 motor on its own gives more power than a LOSI combo

So thats what got me thinking an expensive motor and ESC works/performs better than a cheaper version. I understand that realiabilty may be better with a more expensive model, but im thinking more out speed/performance - than fans breaking etc.

[Fabs]

Do you know what gearing you're running ? There's no reason why you'd be that much down on power other than you're using the wrong gearing, or something in your speedo setup isn't quite right (but there I cannot help).

[autonm]

Originally Posted by Fabs

Do you know what gearing you're running ? There's no reason why you'd be that much down on power other than you're using the wrong gearing, or something in your speedo setup isn't quite right (but there I cannot help).

Its a Team Associated B44 - standard gearing as per the manual. and a 19T pinion. Anything else u need to know?

[Fabs]

Originally Posted by autonm

Its a Team Associated B44 - standard gearing as per the manual. and a 19T pinion. Anything else u need to know?

Yeah what spur size?

[blue_pinky]

Mmm, I'm not sure why you'd be seeing such a difference either?

As well as the gearing question, what batteries are you using?

Edit: 19t on kit spur sounds ok to me...

[Fabs]

I have to disagree.

From what I could find kit spur is 84T, which means with a 19T the FDR is 11.05.

This is WAY undergeared, unless you're racing in a shed

Try going to a 23 for a start and keep going up until it's too much (motor gets too hot at the end of a run / speedo thermals etc).

[autonm]

page 25 of the B44 manual suggests

6.5 brushless motor - 19T pinion 84 spur gear = 11.05 FDR

thats what ive got it setup as.

[Northy]

Set the 'initial acceleration' value in the pc software to 'high'

G

[blue_pinky]

19t pinion could be lower geared than some people run (but also depends a bit on where your running the car?), but that should give you more bottom end/low speed acceleration...making donuts easy to pull!!!. Are they pulling away from you at the start of a straight or are you loosing out on top end at the ends of the straights? And have you measured motor/esc temps at all?

Still wondering about batteries?

If your using good lipo's or good condition, well matched NiMH's, then it would rule them out, but if your on low powered lipo's or old or unmatched NiMH cells, then performance could be significantly lower.

They can make a huge difference to things!

Can be tricky sometimes to correctly diagnose things, so bear with it if it takes a bit of message ping pong to get the right answer

[mark christopher]

you could try getting the latest software, brian peddy? did my mates at worksop and it was totally different, described as being more like the nosram/lrp

[Hyperarm]

Hi, I think most people gear depending on the motor manufacturers guidelines. I mean the FDR recommended by Losi in their manual for your motor is around 13, don't quote me on this. I have a couple of the combos a 4.5 and 6.5 and have had a few problems but none more so than other controllers I've used, it is mostly errors on my part rather than the equipment.

[samd]

Look at your cells, a 6.5 should be very fast, lipos and brushless go together very well, i had the biggest improvement in power from changing to new good lipos rather then running a faster motor, intellect saddles are well priced around £45+post for a 4200mah set off ebay, or PM oople member sicknote who had some at £45 posted new.

[autonm]

Originally Posted by samd

Look at your cells, a 6.5 should be very fast, lipos and brushless go together very well, i had the biggest improvement in power from changing to new good lipos rather then running a faster motor, intellect saddles are well priced around £45+post for a 4200mah set off ebay, or PM oople member sicknote who had some at £45 posted new.

im running lipo saddle 4200mah - had them about 2-3 months.

Ive hooked the ESC upto my PC tonight. All settings were already on high. Ive moved the motor timing onto very high.

The only other thing I could see was an acceleration graph - which was linear. Ive gave it more of a curve now.

Have to see how it goes really at the club I guess.